3wrolos

deutero test
gia na diagrafei

test gia na diagraftei...

http://www.darknet.com/2005/05/interview_a_maj.html
http://www.welcometothescene.com/


Interview: A major pirate in the movie underground

record labels themselves are due to die. the artists are the ones who will eventually control their own productions, as they should — beneaththecobweb


Following is the transcript of an Apple iChat between J.D. Lasica and the head of six movie release groups — the first published interview with a major movie pirate. This transcript (which does not appear in "Darknet") is appearing here for the first time in this Web exclusive as an unfiltered look at the mindset of a leader of the scene.

JD: wanna introduce yourself pleez?

well, why not.. i'm beneaththecobweb
my birth given name means nothing, so ill stick to that one

ok. tell me about your background and main interests

sure, im currently living in europe, and based on the reason for this conversation in the first place.. i am very interested in the "scene"

ok. what attracted you to the scene?

the amazing part of the scene is that it represents an inner-circle
its a place where people in hundreds of different countries connect, and work for a common purpose

whats wrong with the way Hollywood and the music biz release their stuff now?

ah, good question, i've been thinking about this a lot lately
both hollywood and the music businesses are not adapting to changing times
for example, the music business is attempting to force consumers to pay ridiculously high prices for cds, even when realistically the cds cost them nothing to make, and only a small fraction of the money made goes to the creators, the artists

what would you say to Jack Valenti if you had the chance?

interesting question, perfect timing too.. if you've been paying attention to his recent policy, his attempt to ban dvd screeners, you'd see exactly what i meant in the above 'lack of adapting,'' .. dvd screeners are NOT what cause piracy, or even make dvd studios or movie industries lose money, dvd screeners if anything promote movies, especially the limited or low budget films that many people wouldnt otherwise hear about
and for what its worth, i have an evergrowing dvd collection, and i pay for the movies that are worth the money to pay for
if i'm not willing to pay for Dude Where's My Car 2, i apologize greatly
lol

if you arent uncomfortable, could you mention some of your more important releases of the last year

i can't go into specifics, because it would be easy to pinpoint certain things if i went into a long list of specifics
however..
if i mentioned movies either of equal or greater revenue to matrix and/or lord of the rings, i wouldn't be making an understatement

ok

and of course, the low budget quality films, Hollywood cannot compete with such films
perfect example: memento.

can you simply lay out how something is released

i can give you a basic outline, of course avoiding specifics
basically you have a dvd, let's call it dvd x
when you put it into your computer, the dvd is composed of several 'vob' files, defined as basically the meat of the dvd, the data
what you basically need to do, is rip those vob files, decrypt them, and downsample both the audio and the video to a smaller, more containable and transferrable size
you can perform that using several forms, SVCD, VCD, XviD, DivX, 4 major and commonly used encoding types
in the end, you turn an 8GB (8000mb) dvd into .7GB (700MB), a much easier to transfer file
with minimal or no loss of quality
thats basically it

after it's made, you mentioned 'releasing'

releasing is simply making it available
whether it is by Kazaa, IRC, word of mouth, or whatever method shows up along the way, thats how you get it out
because people WANT it, its not hard to get them what they want

thats great
ok about members of a release group - what are the average demographics? Male? College age?

the 'scene' consists of a greatly mixed demographic
to put it simply
i've seen people as young as 14
and as old as .. 62
if i were to pinpoint an average age, i'd say 21
mostly male

now, do some group members do it just for fun or do they make a profit doing this (like blanket sales on NY streets)

most group members i come across do not do this for profit
ill give you an example
you're a high school student and you're 16
you're trying to become 'known' in your school, so you decide to design your schools website
problem comes across, you have no suitable a) html editor and b) photo editor
is someone of your statute capable of paying for the likes of Adobe Photoshop and Microsoft Frontpage?
*stature, it think thats how its spelled
so you go to Kazaa and you download it, knowing its not 'right,' but also knowing you don't have a choice
you have no intent to sell or use it in any form but helping yourself

hm ok
do you consider copyright infringement ethical in this particular application?
movies, etc

in my mind, copyright infringement is a loose and unadaptive policy
pretty soon, everything will be on the internet
if it isn't already
the only reason major corporations are arguing the merits of copyright infringement is because they themselves haven't adapted to changing times
but me specifically, i buy what i can buy, and i download what i cannot
i do not make enough money to pay for Adobe Photoshop or Windows XP
but i dished out the money for office XP and windows 2000

ok what do you say to the studios when they argue that piracy will make it harder to create big budget films

i'd have trouble saying anything at all, i'd be busy laughing my little head off.. but what i'd try to say is that any quality movie, such as return of the kings that premieres in december, will be paid for. the crap will not be paid for and will inevitably lose money. it's competition, its what america was made for and its what europe is going towards

can you say how many people are in a typical release group

realistically, the scene is not a very big place
the largest group i've seen is around 30 members
and the smallest i've seen is 2
avg lets say, 15

cool
very broadly, in what area do you work legitimately?

you mean my personal occupation in life? or in the scene?

your personal occupation....like student, businessman, IT guy....

i'm a network administrator

good enough
broadly....what part of europe are you in...eastern, western, northern....

western

do you look at this as more of a enjoyable pursuit or a philosophical cause

to say the scene isn't at least a small 'movement' would be a lie, becasue much of the scene does disagree with 99% of the policies issued by the riaa/mpaa/etc, but as the scene grew it became much more an enjoyable situation with a hierarchy that you can climb up

what should movie studios and record labels be doing now?

ill go into one of them, its basically the same plan for both
record labels themselves are due to die
the artists are the ones who will eventually control their own productions, as they should
the artists should start meeting up with large corporations that deal with consumer products, for instance.. snapple.. and make a deal with them
'we'll give out your music for free, and you'll get a percentage of our sales and we'll promote your concerts'
selling cds isnt really all that important anymore, most of the cash gets pocketed by the record labels themselves, its about time the artists see more of their money

whats the greatest misconception about release groups and filesharing

ah, good question
the news/media/mpaa/riaa paint the release groups as kniving [conniving] thieves
(sorry if spelling is wrong on that word)
basically, we don't go out to steal peoples money for their hard work
its not about theft, its about, to put it simply, equal opportunity
if you want me to elaborate on that i can, but i think based on what i've said before it should be pretty clear

just tell us a little more about 'equal opportunity' -- does that mean early access to movies, easy access to affordable music in digital format, or what else is involved?

i think everyone should be allowed to experience great music
(for example)
throwing a $20 price tag on a great album is limiting your audience
if you give it to them for free, whether it be by downloading or free promotions, everyone will be able to experience it
no matter their social class, taste, or budget
the key is removing the middle man, in this case the record label

so far the riaa and mpaa have not identified a single movie release group member, much less gone after them legally. why is that? are they incompetent or do you all take extreme precautions?

i'd take the position
of alot of both
they are extremely incompetent, they have no idea about what is going on around them
but, equally as much
group members take every precaution available to them
they do not speak on public networks, they use encryption to speak to each other
they often don't even give specific life information to their fellow group members
constant paranoia would be putting it lightly

are your release group members in the us, europe or both?

everywhere
as i said earlier, the scene is international
you'll find group members in asia, europe, the US, and i've even seen a few from africa and south america
oh, and i'm forgetting the aussies

i've heard that often release group members have never met one another. is the work done in these groups largely independent, with people working alone/solitary?

you'd be correct
very few members have met each other
(that part was correct)
but the work itself is done as a group
a cooperative mission if you will
some members are fit for certain parts of a task, and some members are not
it becomes the equivalent of an assembly line

is there anything you can tell me about the different facets of that assembly line ... rippers and distributors and couriers?

what do you want to know? rippers rip the DVD (from DVD to compressed footage)
couriers are in charge of 'making the release available' for the enduesr
distributors? i've never heard of that word in this context

distributors like on irc. but: i don't want to use my terms. just thought it would be interesting to hear from someone on the inside how it all works, what roles the different people play. is it all just rippers and couriers, and the occasional donator?

yup
different forms of donating though
whether it be money, supplies, etc
ripping is very CPU intensive, you need to have the latest gear

how does someone hook up with a release group (someone who legitimately wants to help the cause and join the scene)?

not going there, i apologize

cool
wondering why you've agreed to give this interview today.

well, first off, i'm happy i was able to convey my outrage with the common misconception
the misconception that we're evil little thieves
if all i needed to do was answer a few questions to clear that misconception
i'm all ears

where do you see all this heading, in a year or 5 years? who'll win, how will the music and movie industries (and TV?) change or evolve?

refer to music is free
that's where i see us
as soon as a year, and as late as 5
ultimately, the record labels are fighting a losing battle
subpoenas for kazaa downloaders get the RIAA nowhere
banning dvd screeners gets the MPAA equally as far

so they need to work on their digital distribution model?

that's putting it lightly
they need to change their entire business model
they need the 'dynasty leaders' out
and the youth in
running their companies based on antiquated models has brought them close to extinction

but they still have a right to make a profit, no? or should the distributors be removed from the process and only the artists receive compensation?

the latter
the labels are thieves
they are complaining of cd sales dropping and money losses
but its not their money
they consider their advertisements and promotions of artists to be almighty and powerful, you don't need to give the labels 99% of your cash to achieve the same purpose

but you're mostly involved with releasing movies, not music, and we can't get the movie studios out of the movie business, right? Isn't the problem with Hollywood the release windows and their current business model?

i don't think you can completely eliminate movie studios from the business
that's absolutely correct
release windows and their current business model need changing

ok. anything else you want to add, or that we haven't covered, or that you'd like to get out to a national audience?

basically, above everything else, i'd like to make it known that the RIAA and MPAA are accomplishing nothing for the studios of both media businesses, and i dont understand why the studios are cooperating with any of their policies

cool. appreciate your forthrightness.

no problem, its been a pleasure to meet you JD


Interview conducted 2:42 PM to 3:55 PM on Oct. 27, 2003

May 30, 2005 in Interviews, Mini-book | Link

-----Original Message-----
From: "JLB"<jealier@wanadoo.fr>
Sent: 26/11/05 9:08:14 pµ
To: "multitudes-infos@samizdat.net"<multitudes-infos@samizdat.net>
Subject: [multitudes-infos] Netresistances contre les Pinochets arabes made in US

Courrier international - n° 786 - 24 nov. 2005

INTERNET - Au Moyen-Orient, les blogueurs font de la r?sistance

De l?Egypte au Bahre?n, les opposants utilisent de plus en plus les
blogs
pour informer, contester et exiger plus de libert?s. A tel point que
certains r?gimes sont oblig?s de l?cher un peu de lest.

Dreadlocks noires en bataille et ordinateur portable sous le bras, Alaa
Fattah a une voix qui porte mieux que beaucoup de militants de
l?opposition.
A 23 ans, il est le meneur des blogueurs ?gyptiens. Il fait partie de
cette
communaut? en ligne qui sert de m?gaphone virtuel aux mouvements
d?opposition naissants en Egypte. Alors que ce mouvement prend de
l?ampleur
au Caire, les sp?cialistes estiment que les autorit?s ?gyptiennes vont
embo?ter le pas ? un mouvement r?pressif qui, dans d?autres pays du
Moyen-Orient, s?est traduit par l?arrestation de plusieurs blogueurs et
par
un renforcement de la censure sur le r?seau.
Dans une manifestation r?cemment organis?e au Caire, sur la place de
l?Op?ra, contre le r?gne du pr?sident Hosni Moubarak qui dure depuis
vingt-cinq ans, des activistes distribuaient des pancartes sur
lesquelles
?tait ?crit ?La libert? maintenant? et ?Non ? l?oppression?. Fattah,
quant ?
lui, diffusait une liste d?une bonne douzaine de blogs locaux, qui
jouent
les porte-voix de la disparate opposition ?gyptienne.

Il se cr?e dans le monde un nouveau blog par seconde

La relation entre Internet et dissidence ne date pas des blogs. D?j? ?
la
fin des ann?es 1990, c?est en grande partie gr?ce ? une astucieuse
campagne
sur Internet que les rebelles zapatistes du sud du Mexique ont pu
attirer
l?attention de la communaut? internationale sur leur situation
d?sesp?r?e.
Aujourd?hui, blogs et cyberjournaux ont pris la rel?ve. Le nombre de
blogs
dans le monde a doubl? entre avril et ao?t 2005 et, selon un rapport
r?cent
publi? par Technorati, un site sp?cialis? dans l??tude de ce ph?nom?ne,
il
se cr?e un nouveau blog par seconde. Le Moyen-Orient fait lui aussi
partie
du mouvement.
De nombreux blogueurs arabes traitent de sujets politiques sensibles et
de
questions de droits de l?homme qu?abordent peu les m?dias contr?l?s par
l?Etat. Ils se r?v?lent une excellente source d?informations et sont
capables de toucher quelques centaines de militants ayant la m?me
vision des
choses ou m?me d?attirer l?attention de la presse internationale sur une
cause pr?cise. Apr?s que des partisans du gouvernement eurent attaqu? et
battu des manifestants, fin mai 2005, au Caire, la communaut? des
blogueurs
?gyptiens s?est charg?e de rendre public ce qui s??tait pass?. ?Je
n?avais
jamais entendu le terme ?blogueur? avant le 25 mai?, avoue Rabab
Al-Mahdi,
professeur de sciences politiques ? l?Universit? am?ricaine du Caire et
militante de l?opposition. ?Maintenant, je les connais bien. Ils ont
assur?
une couverture extraordinaire des manifestations. Tous mes amis ?
l??tranger
ont suivi ce qui s?est pass? gr?ce ? eux, parce qu?ils les consid?raient
comme plus fiables que les m?dias traditionnels.?
Les militants ?gyptiens utilisent aujourd?hui les blogs comme celui
d?Alaa
Fattah pour conna?tre l?heure et le lieu des manifestations, savoir qui
a
?t? arr?t? ou d?battre de l?efficacit? des strat?gies de l?opposition.
Apr?s
s??tre d?abord content?s de commenter discr?tement la situation
politique,
les blogueurs ?gyptiens sont devenus en peu de temps une v?ritable
force.
Lass?s de manifester toujours au m?me endroit et avec les m?mes slogans,
Fattah et deux autres blogueurs ont organis? en juin, gr?ce ? leurs
blogs,
une manifestation dans un quartier populaire du Caire. Celle-ci a
rassembl?
quelque 300 personnes. De m?me, apr?s que trois attentats suicides
eurent
touch? la station baln?aire de Charm El-Cheikh le 23 juillet, trois
autres
blogueurs ?gyptiens ont organis? une veill?e aux chandelles contre le
terrorisme. Cette initiative a tellement attir? l?attention que le
gouvernement l?a interdite ? la derni?re minute.

Des journalistes en ligne ont ?t? emprisonn?s

La plupart des r?gimes du Moyen-Orient, accoutum?s ? contr?ler
strictement
la diffusion des informations, consid?rent les blogs comme une r?elle
menace. Des blogueurs et des journalistes en ligne ont ?t? emprisonn?s
en
Iran, en Syrie, au Bahre?n et en Tunisie. ?Au Moyen-Orient, les
m?canismes
de r?pression existent d?j?. Parall?lement, le nombre de blogueurs
augmente.
Dans un avenir assez proche, ces m?canismes seront utilis?s pour s?vir
contre les blogueurs?, assure Curt Hopkins, le directeur du Comit? de
protection des blogueurs [http:// committeetoprotectbloggers.blogspot.
com],
cr?? au d?but de l?ann?e dans le but d?alerter l?opinion sur les
menaces qui
p?sent sur certains animateurs de blogs dans le monde.
Mais les r?sistances ?tatiques ne d?couragent pas la nouvelle
g?n?ration de
militants, qui ne croient plus que les sit-in en faveur de la
d?mocratie et
les vieux slogans de leurs parents soient les moyens les plus efficaces
pour
changer le cours des choses. ?J?aide des gens ? construire des sites
Internet. C?est la meilleure contribution que je puisse apporter au
mouvement?, explique Fattah.
Bahre?n est un autre pays de la r?gion o? les blogueurs ont commenc?,
ces
derniers mois, ? s?opposer au gouvernement. Ils r?clament
inlassablement une
nouvelle Constitution, la s?paration des pouvoirs et plus de libert?s
politiques. Ils semblent avoir ?branl? le r?gime. Cette ann?e, les
autorit?s
locales ont arr?t? un blogueur et deux techniciens du forum Bahrein
Online,
qui avaient mis en ligne un rapport des Nations unies critiquant la
discrimination men?e par le gouvernement contre la majorit? chiite. Le
plus
important mouvement d?opposition du pays a aussi eu recours ? Internet
pour
organiser des manifestations et ?chapper ? la police. Un d?cret du
minist?re
de l?Information sommant tous les blogueurs de s?inscrire aupr?s du
gouvernement a ?t? suivi par des arrestations. Les blogueurs du Bahre?n
ont
alors lanc? une riposte. Ils ont manifest? et ont jur? de ne pas se
plier ?
la nouvelle directive. Leur campagne a ?t? efficace. Les trois personnes
arr?t?es sont sorties de prison. Et, aujourd?hui, la plupart des
observateurs estiment que le minist?re de l?Information ne va pas
appliquer
sa nouvelle politique. ?Si les blogueurs du Bahre?n n?avaient pas
signal?
les arrestations et fait pression sur leur gouvernement, je ne pense
pas que
quiconque aurait jamais entendu parler d?eux?, conclut Haitham Sabbah,
une
blogueuse jordanienne tr?s prolixe depuis 2003.

Charles Levinson
The Christian Science Monitor

Distinctions

L?Egypte fait d?sormais partie de la fameuse ?liste des 15 ennemis
d?Internet? ?tablie par Reporters sans fronti?res (RSF). L?organisation
lui
reproche notamment ses ?mesures pour contr?ler les informations
transitant
sur le Net?. Parall?lement, RSF, en partenariat avec les Allemands de la
Deutsche Welle, a d?cern? leur prix sp?cial au blog ?gyptien Manal
andAlaa?s
Bit Bucket (www.manalaa.net) au cours de la c?r?monie ?Le meilleur des
blogs?. Manal et Alaa, un jeune couple ?gyptien, font figure
d?institution
parmi les blogueurs qui critiquent le r?gime. Ils promeuvent la libert?
d?expression et les droits de l?homme. Ils proposent aussi un centre de
ressources pour aider les internautes de langue arabe ? cr?er leur
propre
publication.

R?PRESSION
Les autorit?s ?gyptiennes n?aiment pas le web

Les cauchemars des blogueurs ?gyptiens viennent de se r?aliser, avec
l?arrestation par la police d?Abdel Karim Nabil Soleiman, un ?tudiant en
droit ? l?universit? Al-Azhar, ? Damanhour. Les autorit?s polici?res
n?ont
pour l?instant donn? aucune justification ? l?arrestation de ce jeune
homme
de 21 ans, mais sa famille l?attribue ? la diffusion de ses opinions sur
plusieurs sites, en particulier dans son blog, ? sa participation au
site de
l?Union copte et ? son engagement sur le forum ?Dialogue civilis??.
Fin octobre, quelques jours avant son arrestation, Abdel Karim avait
publi?
sur son blog plusieurs articles enflamm?s qui traitaient des troubles
confessionnels qui ont eu lieu dans son quartier de Moharam Bek, ?
Alexandrie. [Ceux-ci ont fait trois morts et une soixantaine de
bless?s.]
Certains passages ont peut-?tre choqu? la police, qui a r?agi en
l?emprisonnant. L?arrestation d?un blogueur ?gyptien est une premi?re?
et
nous esp?rons que ce sera une derni?re. Elle survient apr?s un an
d?activit?
intense de la part des blogueurs, un groupe de jeunes qui ne sont
affili?s ?
aucune organisation politique ou id?ologique et qui utilisent Internet
pour
diffuser sur des sites personnels leurs opinions concernant l?actualit?
en
Egypte et dans le reste du monde.
Au cours des derniers mois, la communaut? des blogueurs ?gyptiens a
couvert
efficacement les faits et gestes des nouveaux groupes d?opposition en
Egypte. Certains de ses membres, qui participaient ? des manifestations
pacifiques, ont d?j? ?t? frapp?s et insult?s par la police. Leurs petits
sites personnels sont devenus une source d?information et d?analyse
recherch?e par les journaux et les cha?nes de t?l?vision par satellite,
ce
qui leur a fait craindre que la police n?ait recours ? d?autres m?thodes
contre eux. L?arrestation d?Abdel Karim Nabil Soleiman est l?expression
de
leurs craintes. Il n?y a qu?en Egypte et dans les autres dictatures du
monde
que des personnes sont arr?t?es simplement pour avoir publi? sur le Net
des
opinions qui ne plaisaient pas ? leur gouvernement.

I

--

m u l t i t u d e s - i n f o s
Liste transnationale des lecteurs de "Multitudes"
................................
Pour envoyer un message : multitudes-infos@samizdat.net
Pour s'inscrire : <mailto:sympa@samizdat.net?subject=subscribe%20multitudes-infos>
Pour se d?sinscrire : <mailto:sympa@samizdat.net?subject=unsubscribe%20multitudes-infos>
Pour acc?der aux archives, se mettre temporairement en "no mail", etc.:
http://listes.samizdat.net/sympa/info/multitudes-infos
Administration de la liste : emmanuel.videcoq@wanadoo.,
gdoublet@noos.fr
Site Web de la revue multitudes : http://multitudes.samizdat.net

O/H kiki maraveli έγραψε:

>
>

υπαρχει το τυχαιο τυχαια τυχαια?

http://cramer.netzliteratur.net/writings/pornography/london-2005/pornographic-coding.html

Pornographic Coding

/' `\/ `.
. .' : `. `.
\\.' , `.` `.
`. ,___/|\. `. :
. \, .'./ ' '\ , '
.\ . \_.~ _; ; \/'.
`\ ..._`. : /.. ../
/' _._ \. ~ .' `\:
/'.'@ ` .---. `.
.' : ' @ `.\. / ./`.._./ ~ . :\ `. __
.' / ( \....' `. .' /' `.
/'''\ .' `. / \ : ;' .' ..:
.' ; `\; : : : : .' : ; :
: `\. `\. ; : \.' " ' ;
`. `. \ / s . / `. .'
` . `. `\ `. ; /' ;___ ;
`. `. `. ` ; ;:__..'
`. `. `. :` ': _.' .' ; :
`. `. .\x./-`--...../' ; :
`. ..-:..-' ( :
`---'`. `; :
`. `,.. : :
`. `. `.___;
`. `.
`. `;
`-.,'

Originally a hack to bring visual pornography into the world of
alphanumerical computer terminals, they became ironic retro chic in
1990s net art, above all in ``Deep ASCII,'' a typographic rendering of
the movie ``Deep Throat.''
http://cramer.netzliteratur.net/writings/pornography/london-2005/pornographic-coding.html

στήν εργασία σου δράς διαφωτιστικά ή φορμαλιστικά ;
με τήν εργασία σου εμφανίζεις τίς σχέσεις παραγωγης της εργασίας σου ή παίζεις τόν διακοσμητικό ρόλο;

μάς διαφωτίζεις σχετικά γιά τήν εργασία σου ή δράς άκριτα σαν φορμαλιστικό προϊόν, συγκαλύπτοντας;

τό στρατηγικό ρόλο τής υλοποίησης τού διαφωτισμού πού έπαιζαν στή μοντέρνα εκφραση: 1. η ανάλυση τής γλώσσας καί 2. η υπαρξιακή συμπεριφορά, τώρα χρειάζεται νά τόν παίξει η ανάλυση καί η εμφάνιση τών διαδραστικών συνθηκών πού διαμορφώνουν τό υποκείμενο - προϊόν.

η ανάλυση τής γλώσσας ήταν η αναγκαία συνθήκη πού έσπαγε αντιδραστικά τίς εικόνες τόσο στήν εποχή τής αστικής κοινωνικής διαχείρισης οσο καί στήν εποχή τής διαχείρισης τής κοινωνίας ως παραγωγικού συστήματος.
Στήν εποχή τής διαχείρισης τής άϋλης εργασίας τού κοινωνικού υποκειμένου, η γλωσσική ανάλυση τής παραγωνής τών εικόνων δεν επαρκεί. Στήν εποχή τής μετατροπής τής υποκειμενικής έκφρασης σέ εκμεταλεύσιμο υλικό, τοσο η γλωσσική ανάλυση οσο καί η υπαρξιακή συμπεριφορά παίζουν τό φορμαλιστικό ρόλο τής διακόσμησης, τού πακεταρισματος τού προϊόντος - υποκειμενική έκφραση.

Η ανάλυση τών διαδραστικών συνθηκών πού ρυθμίζουν τή διαχείριση τής <αϋλης εργασίας τού υποκειμένου>, μπορεί νά είναι η θεμελίωση τής νέας στρατηγικής αντίδρασης.


ta proionta ths ergasias sou diafwtizoun tis sxeseis kai tis synthikes ths ergasias sou h' leitourgoun me diakosmhtiko rolo ?

dimos
ta proionta sou diafwtizoun tis sxeseis kai tis synthikes ths ergasias sou h' leitourgoun me diakosmhtiko rolo ?

triantafullos
KAΛHΣΠEPA 2 ΔIAΦOPETIKEΣ MATIEΣ ΠOY EΞHΓOYN TO ΠPOION YΠAPXOYN KAI OI ΔYO ΛEITOYPΓOYN AYTONOMA ΠPOKEIMENOY NA AΠOΔΩΣOYN TON ΠPAΓMATIKO EAYTO O POΛOΣ TIΣ XPHΣHΣ TΩPA TO ΠΩΣ ΔHΛAΔH BΛEΠEI H MIA MATIA THN AΛΛH ΔINOYN KAI THN OΛOKΛHPΩΣH TOY ΠPOIONTOΣ AN EXΩ ΠAPANOHΣH MIΛA MOY

sokol
1. proion mou? opws? kanena proion den mporei na einai apokleistiko proion kanenos. 2. diakosmhtiko=katanalwsh=fthnh ais8htikh

dimos
Opws kai nanai kapoio proion to anaparageis ki ekfrazesai. S autous pou apey8ynesai ti tous emfanizei to proion sou, einai to erwthma

triantafullos
TON TPOΠO ΠOY ANTIMETΩΠIZΩ THN ΠPAΓMATIKOTHTA MOY NOMIZΩ AYTO ΠOY ΔEN ΓNΩPIZΩ EINAI ΠΩΣ OI AΓNΩΣTOI AΛΛOI ΦIΛOI MOY BΛEΠOYN

sokol
auto mou fainetai pws einai kai to zhtoumeno. to proion prepei na einai reusto, eley8ero, anoikto. apo pompos ekfrashs na ginei dekths ekfrashs.